I have an extensive collection of karaoke discs---cd plus g. Often they have 13 crummy songs, and 2 good ones, so, long ago,I started using cdrwn to compile discs with the good songs to save space. I used a 9100 from hp for this. Still, I must use a bulky 300 cd player with a special attachment to read the graphics in order to have enough songs ready quickly.

I saw an item from ace karaoke, a player which can use a dvd with mp3 plus g, to have over 1000 songs on one disc. They advertize that you can create your own superdiscs from your own collection. I upgraded my computer with, among other things, a plextor 716a. I wrote to ace to find out about what software is necessary to create your own discs on dvd with large numbers of songs. I told them would buy two of their players if I could successfully capture the material I have on my cd plus g, and change it to mp3 plus g. Still waiting to hear from them.

Latest in Karaoke Technology!

Your Own Personal Super CD+G

Commercial Super CD+G

Make a Super CD+G disc from your old CD+G library. CAVS SCDG Encoder program enables you to make your own Super CD+G discs with your favoirite songs. Please read completely the instruction below before starting. For commercial Super CD+G production, please go to Commercial Super CD+G.

WARNING: Self made Super CD+G discs are NOT compatible to PC.

Step 1. Collecting CD+G songs in MCG/MP3 file format

1.1 Extracting MCG/MP3 files from CD+G discs
To make MCG/MP3 files, you can use the Encoder MCG program that will extract the MCG/MP3 files from the standard CD+G discs. This process requires CD-RW drive that is compatible to CD+G format, such as Plextor CD-RW drives (List of CD+G compatible CD-RW drives).

1.2 Download MCG/MP3 files from CAVS Online Library
At CAVS Online Library, there are over 11,000 CD+G songs in MCG/MP3 file formats. Go online and purchase the songs for immediate download.

Step 2. Preparing MCG/MP3 files

2.1 Rename the MCG/MP3 files with 5 digit numbers (sequentially) as below:

00001.MCG, 00001,MP3
00002.MCG, 00002.MP3
...

2.2 Make a text file called, SCDG.CFG, that has the song number (same as the file name), title, and artist separated by # sign as follows:

00001#Love me tender#Elvis
00002#Yesterday#Beatles
...

WARNING: For the names of title and artist, use only alphanumeric characters. Other symbols such as !,@,#,$,%,^,&,*,_,-,+,=,[,... are NOT allowed.

Step 3. Making a DAT file from MCG/MP3 files

3.1 Create a directory in PC, such as C:\SCDG\. Copy all MCG/MP3 files prepared in Step 2 into the directory. Also copy the SCDG.CFG file into the directory

WARNING: Be sure to make a backup copy of all MCG/MP3 files and scdg.cfg file in another directory of your PC.

3.2 Download the SCDG Encoder Program, scdg_encoder.exe, into your PC and copy it into the directory C:\SCDG\. Double click on scdg_encoder.exe to unzip following four programs in the directory:

SCDG.BAT
SCDG1.exe
SCDG2.exe
SCDG3.exe

3.3 Double click on SCDG.BAT. The batch process will begin to make a DAT file from the MCG/MP3 files. When the process is completed, a subdirectory C:\SCDG\CAVS_MCG will be created inside the directory C:\SCDG\. Inside this subdirectory, you will find a .dat file.

Step 4. Burning the DAT file onto a CD-ROM or DVD-ROM disc

4.1 Depending on the size of the .dat file, you can use a CD-ROM or DVD-ROM disc to make a Super CD+G disc. To write onto a DVD-ROM disc, it will require a DVD-Recordable (DVD-R) drive, such as Pioneer DVR-A06U, in PC. Using the recordable drive (and its bundled authoring software) then, be sure to write the whole CAVS_MCG directory (not only .dat file) created in Step 3 onto a disc.

4.2 This completes the procedure of makeing a Super CD+G disc. Insert the disc into CAVS DVD-101G II or DVD-202G karaoke players. Input a song number and press Play to begin playing a song.

Commercial Super CD+G discs, other than for personal use, must be created under the licensing of CAVS. CAVS provide professional authoring with encryption onto DVD-9 dual layers for extra copy-protection. The commercial Super CD+G discs will also be playable in PC Windows with DVD-ROM drive. For professional authoring of Super CD+G discs, please inquire at:

CAVS USA Inc
10036 S. Pioneer Blvd
Santa Fe Springs, CA 90670
cavs@cavsusa.net

I can now do step 1.1 I have no idea what to do with whatever I extract---does this seem a bit hard to follow, or does it look easy?

AG can rip cd+g discs into mp3 plus the graphics. Those may be kept on DVD's or on the harddrive. Can only be played on computers as far as I know though.

If you really want to play loads of karaoke-tracks I suggest you hook a computer to the mixerboard and play that way. A small barebone won't cost you that much, is very small and quiet and can store many thousands of karaoke tracks. All with fast access! WinAMP can play karaoke if you use the plugin.

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moonroy, Moderator

On the audio grabber, I downloaded something called lame 3.96 because 56 kbits is weak. I cannot get it to join with the audio grabber---and I see nothing to indicate tha ag will create anything other than mp3s without the graphics. Is that what append id3 info to wav file for future use is for? Hell will freeze over before I sort this mess out. I am really discouraged.

1. CAVS mcg files cannot be created from a CD+G disk with any other software; only with the software they provide. You need a compatible drive (like Plextor).

2. CAVS files cannot be burned with any other software other than with the software they provide. Again, you need a compatible drive (like Plextor).

3. CAVS files cannot be converted to .bin format or with any software other than the software they provide.

4. You cannot play back CAVS files with any program other than software they provide.

5. Support for all of the above is seriously lacking... Starting to get the picture?

CAVS is a proprietary format (buy our disks, our equipment, our software) and is really difficult to work with for a casual computer user. Sry... but I am not very impressed with any of their stuff.

Someone here http://www.cdrom-guide.com/forums/ or here http://www.dvdrom-guide.com/forums/ may be able to better answer your question.

moonroy has it here... you may be better off using a laptop.

[This message has been edited by Holler on 19 November 2004 @ 20:44]

At present I operate with a cd player which holds 300 cdgs---the parts are wearing--it hesitates accessing songs on some cds now. I also have 5 ram disks--6 hours long each, and f disc panasonic player.(they were created on my panasonic dvd recorder, one song at a time.)

There is an enormous amount of wasted space in the cd carousel, even though I have 255 disks. If I cannot figure this mp3 plus g thing out, I might put the majority of the stuff I actually use on additional ram discs. But the idea that I could put 1000 songs on a dvd is enticing. I have observed people who operate with laptops and I have seen the cavs thing---I would buy their frigging crap if it was not so difficult to figure out the directions. I have the plextor--I bought their 30 dollar software---I have actually created some mp3gs already--but I can go no further.A guy who really did good work upgrading my computer--told me what he would do and how much it would cost and the results were right on the money-- looked at the directions and said he would need my computer and he did not know how long it would take to figure it out----not a gamble I am willing to take.

First, you need a big TV or projector. I take it you already have this. (this was the easy step, just to get you going)

Second, you need a small computer, either a barebone or a laptop. Connect the video output to the TV.

Third, install WinAMP and the plugin.

Fourth, the mixerboard. A small one will do. Hook the microphone(s) to the mixerboard, as well as the computer audio out. Output it to the amplifier and the speakers you are using. Route the microphones to some reverb before sending it to the speakers.

Now you are all set! This will let you have an extensive collection of karaoketracks right on the harddrive. You can create playlists that will last the entire evening.

If someone brings his own cd+g, no problem. The computer have a cd-rom, right?

It shouldn't be that hard for you to rip karaokediscs using audiograbber and encode them into mp3+cdg. Read the helpfile or come back here and ask us.

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moonroy, Moderator

quote:

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Originally posted by moonroy:
OK, so you are really into this karaoke thing and are running shows? Then I really suggest you spend some money on it to get it as good as possible. I am already top guy in my area

First, you need a big TV or projector. I take it you already have this. (this was the easy step, just to get you going)Got lots of them all over the place

Second, you need a small computer, either a barebone or a laptop. Connect the video output to the TV.

Third, install WinAMP and the plugin.

Fourth, the mixerboard. A small one will do. Hook the microphone(s) to the mixerboard, as well as the computer audio out. Output it to the amplifier and the speakers you are using. Route the microphones to some reverb before sending it to the speakers. I do all of this to a very sophisticated level.

Now you are all set! This will let you have an extensive collection of karaoketracks right on the harddrive. You can create playlists that will last the entire evening.

If someone brings his own cd+g, no problem. The computer have a cd-rom, right?

It shouldn't be that hard for you to rip karaokediscs using audiograbber and encode them into mp3+cdg. Read the helpfile or come back here and ask us.

---

00001.MCG, 00001,MP3
00002.MCG, 00002.MP3

The problem is, they do not say when or where to do this. Is it before I record the cdg? If so where? Is it after? Where?

There is a way to do this, but if you don't know how, then you cannot.

quote:

---

This function is found under the CD menu.
There are a few different types of karaoke cd's and the most common one is CDG discs. The second most common is VCD or SVCD. Audiograbber deals with CDG discs only since VCD karaoke discs are easy to copy and there is no need for a CD-ripper for such discs. They have one .dat file for each song and you can copy the .dat files you want to the harddisk and change the file extension to .mpg. Then you can use it as source file for a new VCD discs. Nero from http://www.ahead.de is one of the programs that can make VCD discs.

Other types of karaoke are midi files, laserdiscs and DVD's but they are out of Audiograbbers scope.

Let me explain a bit about CDG discs. A regular frame (sector) on an audio disc is 2352 bytes. It is also possible to store subcode data to each sector and CDG info is stored in subcode R to W. It fits 96 bytes of data in these subcodes and that is used for graphic info. It is not plain text that is stored in the subcodes, instead it is graphics that builds up the picture with lyrics. If a regular CD player plays a CDG disc is simply ignores the sub channel data and it plays as a normal music CD (without song of course since there is usually no vocals on a karaoke disc). Audiograbber can of course also rip the disc that way, so only the audio is ripped.

The data on a CDG discs (audio and graphics) can be used in a few different ways in a computer. The easiest is to rip to a .bin file which is a copy of what is on the original disc. This bin file can later be burnt to a new CDG disc so you can make your own compilation CDG's. A .bin file consists of audio mixed with graphics data.

It is also possible to rip to a .wav + a .cdg file. This way you will have the audio in one file and the graphics in another (and the wav can be normalized too if that is selected). Or you can rip to a .cdg file + an .MP3 (or any other compressed file format like OGG or WMA) file with the audio. There are audio players that can play these .wav files or .MP3 files and at the same time display the graphics/lyrics. There are also programs that can split a .bin file into a .wav and a .cdg file and can combine a .wav and a .cdg file to a .bin file.

Not all CD-ROM drives can read RW subcodes and thus they can not copy the cdg part of a karaoke CD. I have not that much experience which drives that can copy karaoke cd's but as far as I know all Plextor drives can. DVD drives can often not read RW subcodes in my experience. Audiograbber can not detect if the drive is capable of reading RW subcodes so only trial and error will tell. If the drive can not read RW subcodes it usually returns an "ASPI error".
Karaoke cd's seem to scratch more easily than regular cd's so it could be a good idea to make backup copies of them. Especially since they are quite expensive.

---

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moonroy, Moderator

Golden hawk has a program which does a great job of making backup cdgs---the big deal to me is that it has a box which says graphics---you check the box, it gets the music and the graphics. Golden hawk does not do mp3 plus graphics.

The cavs program leaves so much unanswered. What speed on my plextor--what kbps setting---and it runs slower with errors compared to ag and golden hawk. That could be because the instructions are so vague that I could be setting something wrong.

The first thig ag tells me is that the 56kbps rate is too low---I fooled around and managed to change it to 128.

Breakthrough---your directions were clear enough that I am ripping 16 karaoke tracks as I type on audiograbber, on my plextor. I am not sure which of the four choices of bin, etc. to use---to turn them into mp3plusg burned to a dvd.---AG is much faster than the cavs program for which I paid 30 bucks. It is showing a lot of errors on the sixteen songs. I consider it progress. thanks

Then, insert your karaoke disc and click the CD-menu. Select "Grab CDG tracks" and "Grab to .cdg + compressed file". The compressed file is the MP3.

After AG is done, you have a bunch of tracks and the graphics as separate files.

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moonroy, Moderator

I went to circuit city to check out the option of saving everything to a laptop and running things with that. Apparently the video can be sent through an s video out on some of them, and the sound can be sent through the headphones, or in much more expensive models through rca outputs. They told me I could hookup a laptop to my dsl service I use with my desktop computer and download the goldenhawk program, and I could use it to store the music and graphics. (or maybe the cavs program if I ever get there). I have 3 problems with doing this---I do not trust the headphone audio outputs for four hours a night in bars. I worry what would happen if everything on the harddrive was lost---would it be easy to back up? The prices ranged from 900 for the flimsy models to over 2000 for ones with the rca outputs. No one seemed to understand much, but they have one employee who runs karaoke professionally from his laptop, so I will go back and talk to him.

I can send 400 dollars to ace karaoke and I will get a player that plays all my present karaoke discs, as well as my yet to be created mp3 and mp3 with graphic discs. the price of 400 includes their 1224 song disc, which would save me an enormous amount of time and grief. I will decide whether to order it after i talk to the guy who runs karaoke from his laptop.